edmontonrefs.com

[PJ]

Many seem to think that Mr Webb's performance in the final was not his finest hour. Mr Webb described his selection as the ultimate honour, the culmination of a 17-year journey that had begun in the backwaters of the Northern Counties East League, yet it seems that it may have been an unenviable assignment.

Ahead of the final, Simon Rice wrote World Cup: Howard Webb – no good can come of this http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2010/07/08/world-cup-howard-webb-no-good-can-come-of-this/

After the final, English newspapers were quick to deliver their verdict. The Guardian wrote World Cup final: Howard Webb's dream job descends into nightmare http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/12/howard-webb-final-nightmare-yellow-cards , but The Independent was more kind in its comments Sam Wallace: It is far too easy and lazy to blame the referee this time http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/sam-wallace-it-is-far-too-easy-and-lazy-to-blame-the-referee-this-time-2025128.html

Mr Webb can take some comfort from comments by those associated wtih the English Premier League Howard Webb Deserves Credit for Strong World Cup Performance http://www.epltalk.com/howard-webb-deserves-credit-for-strong-world-cup-performance/22031

I believe that Howard Webb did a fine job by finding that balance between too lenient or too strict, showed an extraordinary measure of common sense (he could cautioned Robben for kicking the ball into the net), and was fully justified for every caution he gave. An early ejection (Nigel de Jong) might have handed the game to Spain, but Mr Webb ensured that both teams had to play to win the final.

[rizoramos]

That one is honestly hard to call.

From the refs point of view, we've all been in that situation where no matter what you do, the players just keep acting stupid and it gets to the point where a handful of cards are dished out.

When looking at it like that and sympathizing with Howard, you can say the yellow cards were justified.

On the other hand, we don't know if it would have changed things or not, but dishing out a red or two in a few of those big situations may have changed things for the better or possibly made them worse.

From the other side, when watching as a spectator, I can see how 14 cards would make you think he had no control.

My personal look after watching the game was that all 3 teams on that field were out of place. Both teams played in a way that didn't allow for any flow or viewing pleasure, which lead to them sucking the referee team in and forcing them to have to dish out tons of cards.

One thing I can understand with Mr. Webb was that he attempted to give everyone a second chance and keep them in the final, which majority of the players/coaches/fans didn't appreciate.
_________________
Real Men Don't Wear Shin Pads

[P. Cameron]

I like the viewpoints regarding this subject expressed on Robert Evans Referee Blog (link on www.edmontonrefs.com on the homepage

[Ross]

There are all kinds of "what ifs" concerning Webb's performance in the final.

But, before we jump on Webb, let's look at the teams. The Dutch basically spent 120 minutes trying to kick the h out of Spain. Agreed? I hope so, because that was THE most relevant dynamic in the game. The early cautions didn't have the desired effect. A few short talks with a few players didn't seem to work. Is this Webb's fault? I think not. IF the players don't react to fairly obvious lines in the sand, at some point this has more to do with the players and their coach.

Webb's situation was exacerbated by Spain, who for a period of time (and I think this was what Holland were hoping would occur) decided to start, more or less, matching Holland whack for whack. Then Spain seemd to back off, and start playing football again. And Holland continued to kick them.

I think Webb truly wanted the players to decide it, and this is why he chose to not send off De Jong. Quite within his rights to send De Jong off, quite frankly.

Basically, Webb's goodwill was hijacked by the Dutch. I would say he had a "big game" mentality as a ref, and tried his hardest to let the players decide it themselves. I don't think you can deride him for that. It's not like the guy in the CL final a few years ago, who sent off Lehmann when he didn't have to, and it ruined a potentially brilliant final. Simple advantage, caution Lehmann, we have our early goal, and we've got a barnstorning rest of the match. Sends off Lehmann after failing to play a simple advanatge, and it's a debacle.

I have nothing against the Dutch, nor do I have any great allegiance to Spain. Just the way I saw it. I'm not sure, if I was coaching Holland, that I would have done anything different than the Dutch coach did. I'm not sure you can beat this Spanish side by purely playing football. That midfield is incredible.

[Fab]

Good discussion so far. Here are my two cents.

Let me prefice my comments by saying that I am a big fan of Howard Webb. I had the pleasure to speak with him at the U20 World Cup. A fantastic person.

In the final, I expected Webb to send off Nigel DeJong for the SFP tackle on Xavi Alonso. The tackle was so above a normal football tackle it screamed `I do not want to take further part in the match`. Not showing the red card is where IMHO Webb lost the plot.

In a match where the intensity is high, a referee who acknowledges and acts upon the `moment of truth` is a great referee. The DeJong kung-fu kick to the chest of Alonso was the `moment of truth` in the football match. By not brandishing the red card, Webb`s inaction directly told the players `gents, today, anything goes. You will get a stern word or a caution, but not your marching orders.`

[Grumpy2000]

Two comments:
1/ if I recall correctly, of the 14 cautions, only 2 were for dissent. This would indicate to me that there was a fairly high level of 'respect' for his decisions from players. Not to the point of changing their ways, unfortunately...but certainly indicating that the game was not out of control. I feel like I am losing control of my game (and players' respect) when I am showing 3-4 caution. He had to show 14 and still had no mass confrontations. Quite impressive.
2/ what might have been possible instructions to referees prior to the game from FIFA officials? How much pressure was put on Mr. Webb and his crew to 'let them play and not decide the game by ejecting a player'?
_________________
Grumpy

[PJ]

I'm sure that Mr Webb & his colleagues reflected on the Battle of Nuremberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Nuremberg where Russian referee Valentin Ivanov handed out 16 yellow and 4 red cards.

In the WC Final, The Netherlands clearly had it in for Andres Iniesta who suffered 8 fouls by the Dutch. What a striking irony that it was Iniesta who scored the winning goal...

I've wondered at times if, as a parallel to PIL as directed to a single player, a case could be made that after a certain number of cautions have been issued to a team the next card is red. For example, after 5 cautions have been given to different players of the same team, the next card to a player (no matter for what offence) will be red for the team's persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game.

[digger]

I have done that before, a number of fouls in quick succession by differner players, give the caution and the player is like what, a caution for that. Just tell them that someone was getting one, thanks for taking one for the team

To sum up, Webb did a great job under conditions we'll never understand with instructions that probably reflected how FIFA hoped the game would go
_________________
"You pice of chit" RIP JJ

[EmilioM]

It's easy to talk with the video at hand but we were not there so my two cents is a personal opinion based on the videos of the World Cup Final. As always I can easily be wrong.

A couple of things I saw during the World Cup Final did not impress me at all as I expected Mr. Webb to act way differently.

1) In total agreement with Fab, my immediate reaction to DeJong nasty foul was "That's GOT to be a Red Card for SFP". Mr. Webb's choice was different, for whatever reason.

I think that was the major mistake of Mr. Webb in that NOT acting promptly with a red card allowed the two teams to go at each other freely.

The missed RED CARD to DeJong also allowed more USB actions on Spain's side and another big mistake by Mr. Webb was to card a Netherland's player for an apparent foul on Iniesta. There was no SUCH thing as a foul but on Iniesta's side as he literally dove (and he should have been carded instead for diving).

If Iniesta would have been carded in this instance, he would have ended up being sent off for taking his shirt off to celebrate his winning goal thus living Spain in 10.

Now, whatever happened, happened. It doesn't change the fact that this World Cup sucked BIG time as it was, in my eyes, the worst World Cup ever in the last 20 and more years.
_________________
Give a man a soccer ball, he plays for a moment. Teach a man to play soccer, he plays for a life time. (S. Schiff)

[Sheena]

Emilio,

You are just upset that New Zealand had a better record than the Italians

I have to agree with Stu, and Fab.

We will never know if FIFA had any instructions to Mr Webb.